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Who is looking for a freelancer attention please - Stay away from CIS

#1

Hey Bubblers

Pay attention to this firm. CIS. Actually, I’ve researched it before I make a deal, but I think it’s insufficient.

When I saw this article by @NigelG,

I understood that I was fooled, and I asked for help from a lot of people and even irrelevant topics in forum to avoid this.

Some people even wrote long examples, thanks for that.

And CIS still can’t deliver the job. They doesn’t understand Bubble, but draws a big company image. A company that uses a lot of sellers.

Apparently, I’m not the first one and if Bubble doesn’t take any measures, more people will be defrauded by the CIS.

Hopefully @Bubble @emmanuel find a formula for that.

5 Likes
Bubble Develooer
#2

Surprised that the Bubble team doesn’t seem to do anything about it, tbh they haven’t done anything about it since I joined Bubble (2-3 years ago)

1 Like
#3

I don’t really know what they can do. When I saw the CIS labs plugin in the plugin page, then I decided to negotiate.

If they weren’t there, I’d probably have more research.

#4

I’m a moderator here asking a genuine question: what would you consider a fair action to be?

Here’s my big issue: it feels like a slippery slope to take action on a freelancer (or group of them) because they do bad work. There’s a Bubble agencies list that exists, and to my knowledge, CIS isn’t there. I would personally never work with them, as I’ve seen their portfolio of Bubble work and it’s not good, but is that enough reason to prevent others from working with them?

I’m honestly befuddled at what to do. I agree they’re not above board, but I also don’t know how much we should enforce. Any suggestions on what a fair action may look like is welcome.

3 Likes
#5

It is indeed a slippery slope and I believe no action should be taken in the forum in regards to quality of work.

Probably Bubble should just add a way to evaluate agencies in the same manner as plugins so people are aware.

1 Like
#6

I’ve thought about this, and obviously I haven’t found a clear answer.

The only solution I could do was to open up a detailed topic so that more people could find it easier. Still, a lot of plug-ins are broadcasting Bubble, which gives them the impression of working with them.

If the company does not try to deceive people, it is not very important. They pay the money back (maybe cut off some of it) and you’ll continue. But instead, they don’t even bother to answer.

#7

Why don’t people just agree 30/40/30 or 30/70 payment terms based on deliverables?

I would never handle 100% of the amount to someone I haven’t worked with before or doesn’t have a great reputation.

3 Likes
#8

It doesn’t change anything (at least for me). I worked with @mishav before these people. Her plugin works in the example her prepared. And when I saw the example of the application I received the payment

When I tried to add this for myself, it didn’t work in any way, probably different plugins coincided. But the plugin does not work in a different application without allowing it. I haven’t had a chance to try it because Misha hasn’t been around much longer.

Note: I do not know where is she. But her work ethic is much and much higher than these people)

#9

There are three sides to every story. Posting one side here is fair and appreciated and helps others judge the other two. So I think disclosure alone is sufficient. Anything more is a slippery slope, socially and legally. Caveat emptor!

1 Like
#10

Paying up front is crazy, full stop.

1 Like
#11

“We hear you, but we are not sure what to do” from me too.

#12

I couldn’t disagree with you more. If you are thinking of paying a substantial amount of money in regards to anything, doing a bit of research before making that transaction is merely basic. So no offence, if you get scammed it is probably going to be your fault. Here’s why:

1) Live examples. There are many ways one can research on the legitimacy of a company/individual. The entity you are doing business with should be able to provide you with current/previous examples of their work whereby you can contact and communicate with said clients. This has statistically been proven many times to solve problems like this. If the entity doesn’t offer this, simply don’t do business with them.

2) Researching on the forum. All you need to do is type in “CIS” and you’ll see a plethora of accusations against them. Why do business with them then? Even if there is little or no info on them, at the end of the day, it’s your decision whether you want to trust an entity that has no reviews (I personally wouldn’t).

3) Cost. It is no news that Bubble has created a list of Bubble certified agencies who not only carry projects themselves, but may delegate projects to trustworthy freelancers. I believe there are only two plausible reasons why people won’t turn to that list first - a) they are unaware or b) they are expensive. If you simply divert your interest away from using these agencies because of the latter, then you should only blame yourself for trying to find a budget freelancer. You know what they say… “you get what you pay for”.

I’ve never been scammed in my years of living (hope I don’t jinx that) and it all comes down to how prudent I’ve been with my money. It’s almost as if people are scared to scrutinise; people would rather jump into a deal without assessing the risks. Rest assured, if you follow all of my steps, paying upfront shouldn’t be a problem at all.

#13

How is that disagreeing with me?

I agree, do research. Don’t pay up front. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#14

Because if you follow my steps, paying upfront should never be a problem. Also, I’ve just realised that you are a developer. Are you telling me that you’d prefer to start a project for someone without any payment?

#15

Paying up front is always a risk not worth taking, its also unnecessary. As a freelancer of many years - I have never charged up front.

1 Like
#16

How has that worked out for you? As in, roughly what % of your projects have been a waste of time? I’d imagine people would be at liberty to not take you seriously… “oh I’m not paying you because I don’t like the design” or “I’ve changed my mind so I don’t want to pay”. Surely as a developer you need some form of leverage which protects you from timewasters.

#17

I simply charge for my time. I issue invoices weekly for the time i’ve spent working on their project. If they don’t like how it’s going they are not obliged to continue and everything can be handed to another developer if they wish.

(That has never happened) :slight_smile:

Obviously we agree milestones along the way to set expectations. But I think the key difference is charging for time not deliverables. That’s what makes it fair for devs.

#18

Fair enough, although it seems like you charge on an hourly basis which has its own obvious pitfalls. I personally would prefer a flat fee.

#19

And an easy way to scam clients also.

1 Like
#20

I charge per day not hour and I work really fast to make sure the client is getting a fair deal. Had no complaints so far and its how the whole freelance/ agency industry works here in London. So I guess its pretty proven